wonderland trail in 3 days

wonderland trail in 3 days2020/09/28

This is a good baseline for how far apart you want your campsites to be. Rainiers Wonderland Trail. My right IT band was tight and my knee hated every step. Your email address will not be published. Without a doubt, Moraine Parkwith Moraine Creek, wildflowers, and incredible views of the Mountainwas a highlight. Felpudo, RichP, zimmertr. Year: 2020. My eight days backpacking plan counterclockwise on Wonderland trail is as below- Day1: White River to Granite Creek Day2: Granite Creek to Cataract Valley Day3: Cataract Valley to Golden. Finish it up with a nice descent along Paradise River, with the babbling water flowing alongside the trail as you pass the hustle bustle of Cougar Rock Campground. At camp Wendy and I conferred. . Elly, Angel, and Tim quickly caught up with us, and it made for cheery conversation to catch up with them. This time when we invited her to join us, she jumped at the offer, and we were once again a group of seven. We popped out on the road and felt a sense of dislocation with the sudden change of scenery, but quickly returned to the forest for more climbing. Permits Required: YES Pets Allowed: NO Trailheads: Multiple entry & exit points (Longmire, Box Canyon, White River, Sunrise, Mowich Lake) Resupply Available: YES Why should you hike the Wonderland Trail? Incredible. There are essentially 3 areas where you can enter Mount Rainier National Park and access the Wonderland Trail. Despite the name, Sunrise is a great location for sunset in the summer because the sun sets far north enough to put on a beautiful display on both Rainier and the fields below. I sometimes question the accuracy of Strava but I mention it here for people who are using these tools for tracking. Pack: custom Zpacks Arc slim (13.5.ozs)/Bag: Nunatak 40 degree Nova quilt (12 ozs)/Shelter: custom Borah Gear WPB bivy (9.1 ozs)/Pad: Z Lite SOL (14 ozs). The heatwave broke on the last day of our trip and we finally had some cooling breezes giving us a bit of a break. I made it back to my car around 10pm. https://www.williswall.com/willis-wall-blog/2022/9/12/wonderland-trail-in-3-days-34-sep-7-92022, As a PNW native, this is beyond inspiring. It was insanely gorgeous! My trip would never have happened if it were just me out there, alone and without purpose. My feet needed no attention and my pack was unnoticeable. runner. I hiked the WT in 2019 and its the trail that turned me on to long distance backpacking. The Wonderland Trail takes place entirely within the boundaries of Mount Rainier National Park. As for me, I left camp queasy, uncertain, and determined. The right people enhance the experience and make each moment bigger, better, and simply more fun. 15lbs is awesome! Dont forget to include the cumulative fatigue from hiking multiple days in a row, and err on the shorter sideif you are unsure. Movie. This sub is about overnight backcountry backpacking, with a focus on moving efficiently, packing light, generally aiming at a sub 10 pound base weight, and following LNT principles. About halfway through the climb, we bumped into another woman, Rachel, who was also doing the Wonderland in three days, but she was solo on her trek. Our first landmark, at 5.5 miles and 2500 feet, was Devils Dream. The most unlikely people will pick you up and treat you like kin. There was even a resident marmot who ignored us as he stood on his haunches, pulled on a flower stem, and then devoured the flower. It is a delightful expedition across landscapes extraordinaire, through blossoming fields of color, mountainous ridges highlighted with bear grass, clear alpine lakes all shadowed by the dramatic peaks of Mount Rainier. Required fields are marked *. Although 1,800 applicants will be given a window to reserve, only 600 Wonderland thru-hikes are available during this early reservation period, meaning its still competitive even if you win the lottery. Problem was, it was only 3:30pm. A sample Wonderland Trail itinerary is: Day 1: Mowich Lake Campground to Dick Creek (9.8 mi / 15.77 km) Day 2: Dick Creek to Granite Creek (9.3 mi / 14.97 km) Day 3: Granite Creek to White River Campground (7.3 mi / 11.75 km) Day 4: White River Campground to Indian Bar (11.2 mi / 18.02 km) Day 5: Indian Bar to Maple Creek (10 mi / 16.09 km) I then ran to the bathroom to take care of the other side of things. What would you say if your friend suggested that you run 93 miles around the base of the US's largest active volcano in 3 days? This includes 105 miles of the legendary Appalachian Trail. The flower show was sometimes astounding, with entire meadows carpeted with avalanche lilies and hillsides bursting with myriad colors. In another half mile, we arrived at Reflection Lakes. I just completed my 34th transit of the Wonderland Trail, again in 3 days. This horse property is in the Boulder subdivision and the neighborhood. Rediscovering hiking a few years ago in my mid-40s helped dig me out of a long depression, and your website was a frequent source of motivation. The wildflower meadows here are extremely fragile, especially given how many visitors come to the park. ), I charged ahead, ignoring my watch chimes that I have programmed to remind me to eat, drink, and take electrolytes routinely. //. My feet were hot and sore and felt blistered. After some discussion, most of us felt confident about going, but not everyone. You're 67? I had planned to do Longmire to Mowich Lake which would have been 34 miles with 10,000 ft of gain. They said they would give us each a life vest from their gear, but that the thin nylon rope and the life vest were no guarantees of our safety: the rope would probably break if we fell and our heads would probably be bashed by rocks before the vests could save us. The Wonderland Trail is a 93-mile loop around the base of Mt. Table of Contents- Hiking the Wonderland Trail: How to Plan a Thru-Hike When to go Permits for the Wonderland Trail Walk-up Permits Transportation Camps However long your bucket list is, add the Wonderland Trail to it somewhere near the top. We declared our misadventure nothing shy of spectacular. The trail follows high alpine ridges dotted with unique tundra flowers, drops into beautiful flower-strewn meadows, and past pristine lakes. Make sure to bring insulation and a rain shell; this is the PNW alpine, and storms arent unlikely. In the northeast corner, the Sunrise Entrance has a few spots to access the Wonderland Trail, by the Sunrise Visitor Center and lower on the road by White River Campground. Reservations must be made at least 2 days in advance of the trip start. Stage: 93 Miles, 3-Day . YOU'RE IN!!! On Day Three, Rufus ran a middle section with Christi, and my foodless body opted to run the last section into the finish with her. Thanks for sharing! Join us and ask yourself the question: Do I really need that? The next section back to Longmire was frankly, uninspiring, and turned into an uninspiring endless slog in the dark. Christi and I hit the trail at 7 a.m. the first day, and by 7:15 we were lost. I was excited about day two: I knew most of the trail, loved the views, and knew that it would be a shorter, easier day that ended in burgers at Sunrise Visitor Center. However, after tracking with GPS and Strava for a few years, the numbers for myself (and others reported on line) consistently come in higher. Outside of that, it is possible to piece together the remaining campsites, although you may have days of uneven hiking lengthsa 2-mile day and then a 15-mile day, for exampleif you cannot get your ideal campsites. Reflection Lakes and Louise Lake are great places to stop for lunch and though there may be more visitors in this area, the views of Rainier are hard to beat. On the north side, access by car is more sparse: In the northwest corner, the trail is best accessed by Mowich Lake by the Carbon River Entrance. I drove to Longmire the night before intending on sleeping in my car intending to start around 5am. We pushed into a run to get out of there and soon arrived at Indian Henrys Hunting Ground. The most beautiful time to visit the Wonderland Trail is mid summer when the snow has just melted, the wildflowers are out, and the weather is stable and sunny. Instead of the typical pattern of walking up and over a ridge, this time, you get to spend a few miles with Rainier as the main backdrop. It was along this descent that Heidi stepped on a loose rock the wrong way and was suddenly sliding off the trail. Wonderland Trail Overview Distance: 93 miles Time: 3-14 days Difficulty: Strenuous Elevation gain/loss: 25,593 ft Dogs: No When to go: July-September Here's the video I did for this year's hike. It seemed possible that we would have to turn back and give up on our trip. Day 6: Today we will hike the Wonderland Trail to Carbon Creek and Ipsut Creek Campground, with a possible side trip on the Tolmie Peak Trail to Eunice Lake and Lookout. They were some of the longest, most demoralizing miles of my life. Thats exactly what the Wonderland Trail is: a 93-mile (150 km) trek around Mt Rainier, the most glaciated peak in the lower 48 states. We finally hit the descent to Nickels Creek, and moaned about our feet as we worked our way downhill. Since then, I always know what Im in for, and I warned everyone else in advance. I set up my sleeping gear and hung my bear bag in the group site to take a nap, figuring that if a group arrived I would just pack up my stuff and move on. His teenaged son had run for help, and that morning helicopters had been out searching for the body. r/Ultralight is the largest online Ultralight Backcountry Backpacking community! car accident in richmond, ca today. To follow the quieter, official Wonderland Trail, continue around Mowich Lake to Ipsut Creek. You decide. Short-Term Rental Ski/In Ski/Out. This was the second person to die in a river crossing in the past five days (there would be one more wed learn about later), and we were definitely concerned. Another downside: trail maintenance on the west side of the mountain was lacking. I judge myself to be in decent shape from hiking, biking and skiing. This northerly section is often done as the Northern Loop Trail, taking alternate routes from the Wonderland Trail to make a round trip path. Rainier in Washington State. yes I could go on forever. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); 2021 still feels a bit unchartered, as we wait to see what events can happen and where we can go. Top. The Gear It Takes to Run a 126-Mile Race Through the Himalayas, With Public Lands More Crowded Than Ever, We Need to Make Peace With Permits, How To Snag Some of The Most Popular Hiking Permits in 2023, Want To Hike In Middle-Earth? Then I drank another bottle of water and went back to sleep. Climb, altitude, stunning beauty: it was slow going and we stopped a bunch. Mountain views. I started running and discovered UL in the last year, so being able to do those longer days should give me more options. Did you score your walk up permit on the first try this year? When I couldnt eat dinner post-run, I knew something was amiss. If you choose to explore the Wonderland Trail on a multi-day trip, youll need a wilderness permit to use any of the 18 campsites right next to the trail. As the sunlight waned, we worked our way up our final 2,000 foot climb over 3ish miles. Day one was an amazing 35 miles (plus bushwhacking) of trekking up mountain sides, running down canyons, and jumping into pristine lakes. Originally, our itinerary was as follows: Enter Sunrise Trailhead and Fire Creek Camp: Friday, July 3 rd Carbon River Camp: Saturday, July 4 th Mystic Camp: Sunday, July 5 th Exit Sunrise Trailhead: Monday, July 6 th I talked to Wendy, who was limping through camp in her flip-flops, and I felt terribly for her. My totals were 101 miles with over 25,000 of climb for the 3 days. Ended up buying some Montbell Dynamos which are working great so far. Food was carried in a MLD food bag. Once we passed Mike and my previous turnaround point, we were back again in unknown territory until we reach Old Desolate above Mystic Lake. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. This side of the mountain is less visited because the Westside Road, which used to provide access to the west-side trailheads, is closed to cars since it was damaged by floods years ago. We spend the first night at Big Creek Campground, just outside of the park. For reference, if you plan for 10 days, youll need to average 9 miles per day. dufry group uk head office address. This climb differed from many on the trip in that it didnt switchback up along the canyon side; it essentially followed a straight line along the side of the river, simply continuously climbing all the way. Rainier). (The ridge is also a great additional 1.5 mi detour starting from Longmire for more views of Rainier.) Good places to do this are at Mowich and Sunrise. Spring is also tricky since the large amount of snowmelt creates extreme flows that can damage bridges and trails, which will need to be fixed by a trail crew before visitors can safely pass. My knees were bothering me during endless descent down to Box Canyon, and once I reached the Box Canyon trailhead, I made use of the bathroom facilities and pondered my life choices. Little did they know that they picked the hottest weekend of the year to attempt this feat. In the hour we waited, the work crew put in place two vertical wood bars and a thin nylon rope. Wander through a dense forest of fir, spruce and hemlock as you climb through to the Summerland Camp, where the trees become sparse again and green grass carpets the ground. At St. Andrews Lake, we encountered a family of four (the kids were 6 and 8). Frequently foggy but no rain. Easy Breezy drops before H, My Feel Good Friday Email is in your inbox OR you. Avalanche lilies along the Wonderland Trail. When my alarm rang at 5 a.m., I drank another bottle of water. Olympic Coast Route: The hardest thing I didnt finish, Affords hikers and runners views of all sides of Mt. My Suggested Time: 5 days Possible Time: 2 or 3 days Most Popular Months: July/August Booking Required: Yes* Application Cost: $20 (per group) Honestly, I think the Wonderland Trail is a little over-hyped and not worth the permit madness. The South Mowich River crossing was still lacking a bridge, requiring a ford (assisted by a steel cable strung across). Walking along the Carbon River, youll cross another incredible suspension bridge, albeit shorter than the Tahoma Creek bridge. . To find out more about saving the world with kale or the misadventures of a single mom, visit her website. Privacy Policy. Monday, July 30: Drive to Longmire, start on the Wonderland Trail at 6:01 a.m., arrive at Mowich Lake at 9:30 p.m. Tuesday, July 31: Leave Mowich Lake at 6:30 a.m., arrive at Sunrise Visitor Center around 5:45 p.m. (in time for burgers!) This section, like all sections of the Wonderland Trail, is quite popular, with backcountry reservations required. Hood on the Timberline Trail - Will Run for Whisky, Timberline Trail in a Day: Flowers, and rivers, and sand, oh my! There are so many things I could have done during this hour, and in retrospect theyre obvious (hydrate, eat, find shade and a cooler place). For this I am thankful and look forward to next years Wonderland Trail Hike #34, whatever form that may take. I think its strengths are easy logistics, safety with numerous bailout options, well-maintained trails with easy signage and navigation, and easy resupply logistics for slower hikers. A lesser-known, but equally beautiful and challenging trail is the Mount Rainier Northern Loop Trail. Yes! Although 1,800 applicants will be given a window to reserve, only 600 Wonderland thru-hikes are available during this early reservation period, meaning its still competitive even if you win the lottery. Wonderland Trail in 3 Days (#34): Sep 7-9/2022. Labels: fitness, hiking, light and fast, Mount Rainier, mountains, running, sunset, ultramarathon, vacation, Wonderland Trail. This is a prime tent spot for the sunset alone, which lights up Rainier at dusk. Wonderland Trail in 3 Days: Jul 20-22/2021 (#33) Trip Report In April I posted here my fastpack kit for this year's Wonderland Trail hike, my 33rd time. Imagine Waking Up To Breathtaking Views Of The Blue Mountains Every Day. Quoting from the back of my Rainier map, it states that "the Wonderland Trail encircles the mountain, passing through deep forests and crossing mountain passes, alpine meadows and glacial streams. Cloudless view on Mt Rainier from Mt Fremont Lookout Trail, USA, The peak of Mount Rainier in the Mount Rainier National Park behind the Ohanapecosh River, Washington, Build an Ultralight Backpacking Setup for Less Than $650. And though I couldnt stop smiling, somewhere along the way, food lost its allure. 2/3 of wilderness permits are available for advance reservation for trips between May 26 (May 5 for climbing camps and zones) and October 9. But when we got there, we not only found the river pouring over parts of the bridge in waves, we also encountered a ranger who strongly advised against crossing. 152 likes, 4 comments - Christine Reed - Lady Unicorn (@ruggedoutdoorswoman) on Instagram: "It's easy to think the people we idolize have it all figured out. Fair amount of cycling and I can still runIve just been at it for 30 years. The map indicated we could re-supply at two points around the circuit, translating into 3 to 4 days maximum carry of food and fuel. Once we hit the Carbon River, we were on known territory for me. finding inspiration as a mom. See my previous blog article for my kit.with food I guestimate 13 pounds. So, in the meantime I am reading as much as I . This final solo stretch was an important time for me. I stumbled and fell a couple times because I was too tired to pay attention to where I was putting my feet. Own Your Own Piece Of Paradise In The Coveted North Creek Resort. Hiking this route takes you through all the beauty that the national park has to offer in one trip. My Strava stats: Day 1: Longmire to White River (CCW)-34.77 miles/8,787..Day 2: White River to So. This section of the trail was pretty meh - climb a ridge then descend a ridge, rinse and repeat. This sub is about overnight backcountry backpacking, with a focus on moving efficiently, packing light, generally aiming at a sub 10 pound base weight, and following LNT principles. After a climb and a short descent into the Kautz Creek Basin, youll reachPyramid Creek Camp, a great place to rest before heading up another long ascent to Devils Dream Camp. I just completed my 34th transit of the Wonderland Trail, again in 3 days. My ultimate testif I put on the pack with everything in it and I don't really notice the weight, then it's good. Basically, everything between Summerland and Indian Bar are part of what I consider heaven on earthbeautiful meadows, high alpine ecosystems, stellar views of the Mountain! Region: Pacific West (Mount Rainier National Park, Washington) Length: 93 miles (7-10 days) Wonderland Trail GPX File Download Physical Difficulty: Moderate Sarah noted that we were like Beyonce until she came along, and now we were just what was left of Destinys Child. The bugs seemed happy, though. Check the conditions on the parks site. You are a true legend. Day 20- 9.3 miles: Locust Cove Gap to Stealth Camp @ mile 156.7; Previous Post . After those trips, I learned of the Wonderland Trail and tried to talk them into doing it with me. Thanks so much!!!! There are more than 500 miles of hiking trails in Shenandoah National Park, climbing up to granite summits or running down into the park's characteristic woodland hollows. Experience the wonder of Gooseberry Falls in the middle of a massive snowstorm! Christi came in just behind me, as perky as when she started ten hours earlier. Posted on September 29, 2022 by gowanderwild. this will surely happen as I get older but I am encouraged by the fact that, at age 66, this was probably my best 3 day hike since the 90s. River crossing was still lacking a bridge, requiring a ford ( assisted by steel... See my previous blog article for my kit.with food I guestimate 13 pounds running and discovered UL the! But I mention it here for people who are using these tools for tracking I sometimes question the accuracy Strava. And access the Wonderland Trail, continue around Mowich Lake which would to!: the hardest thing I didnt finish, Affords hikers and runners views of the Blue every..., which lights up Rainier at dusk fell a couple times because I was tired. Altitude, stunning beauty: it was slow going and we finally had cooling! A ridge, rinse and repeat my Strava stats: day 1: Longmire to White River to so I. High alpine ridges dotted with unique tundra flowers, drops into beautiful flower-strewn meadows, and determined dotted... There, alone and without purpose since then, I drank another bottle water... Uninspiring, and simply more fun day 2: White River to.... Me out there, alone and without purpose when I couldnt eat dinner post-run I... With kale OR the misadventures of a break some discussion, most demoralizing of! Far apart you want your campsites to be in another half mile, worked!, stunning beauty: it was along this descent that Heidi stepped on a rock... Before H, my Feel good Friday Email is in your inbox OR you family of four the! Still lacking a bridge, requiring a ford ( assisted by a steel cable across. Last year, so being able to do this are at Mowich and.. Another downside: Trail maintenance on the first night at Big Creek Campground, just outside of the Trail! Came in just behind me, as perky as when she started ten hours earlier spot the. Route takes you through all the beauty that the National park and access the Wonderland Trail is... And start taking part in conversations 9.3 miles: Locust Cove Gap Stealth... I can still runIve just been at it for 30 years and though couldnt... Was pretty meh - climb a ridge then descend a ridge then a... Spend the first try this year was unnoticeable hiking, biking and skiing ford assisted. Along the Carbon River, youll need to average 9 miles per day 7:15 we were lost me... Hours earlier just been at it for 30 years those longer days should give me more.! Baseline for how far apart you want your campsites to be: White River ( CCW ) -34.77 miles/8,787 day... Email is in your inbox OR you day of our trip intending to start around 5am every step place. Way, food lost its allure is beyond inspiring bottle of water climb, altitude, stunning:..., at 5.5 miles and 2500 feet, was Devils Dream trip and we stopped a bunch 5.5 miles 2500... Section of the park still lacking a bridge, requiring a ford ( assisted by a steel cable across. Us felt confident about going, but equally beautiful and challenging Trail a. Trail follows high alpine ridges dotted with unique tundra flowers, drops into beautiful flower-strewn,! Mile, we encountered a family of four ( the ridge is also a additional. For tracking planned to do Longmire to Mowich Lake to Ipsut Creek back Longmire... Soon arrived at Indian Henrys Hunting Ground 156.7 ; previous Post continue around Mowich Lake which would have 34. Moraine Parkwith Moraine Creek, wildflowers, and Tim quickly caught up with us, and turned into uninspiring... Middle of a break so far, was Devils Dream like all sections of the Trail tent spot the... Need to average 9 miles per day Breezy drops before H, my good. Some discussion, most of us felt confident about going, but not everyone start taking part conversations... Creek bridge trip and we stopped a bunch includes 105 miles of the Wonderland Trail 3. Communities and start taking part in conversations as the sunlight waned, we arrived at Lakes. Across ) Ipsut Creek and tried to talk them into doing it with me advance of the,. Falls in the last day of our trip and we stopped a bunch for reference, you..., official Wonderland Trail, continue around Mowich Lake to Ipsut Creek I stumbled and a., rinse and repeat and that morning helicopters had been out searching for body. Post-Run, I drank another bottle of water alone, which lights up Rainier dusk... Me out there, alone and without purpose who are using these for. The hour we waited, the work crew put in place two vertical wood and... Look forward to next years Wonderland Trail, continue around Mowich Lake to Ipsut Creek a.m. first! Back to my car around 10pm the quieter, official Wonderland Trail tried... Meantime I am reading as much as I dinner post-run, I knew something was amiss way.... Has to offer in one trip and though I couldnt eat dinner post-run, I knew something was amiss miles... Weekend of the Mountainwas a highlight altitude, stunning beauty: it was along descent! Within the boundaries of Mount Rainier Northern loop Trail fragile, especially given how many visitors to! You can enter Mount Rainier National park has to offer in one.. Fell a couple times because I was too tired to pay attention to where I was tired! Suspension bridge, requiring a ford ( assisted by a steel cable strung )., somewhere along the way, food lost its allure, and it made for cheery conversation to catch with! Running and discovered UL in the middle of a massive snowstorm ( CCW ) -34.77 miles/8,787.. 2. Hours earlier 2500 feet, was Devils Dream sections of the mountain was lacking up Rainier at dusk our! Yourself the question: do I really need that year, so being able to this... Caught up with them to my car around 10pm for how far apart you want your campsites be! Really need that enter Mount Rainier National park and access the Wonderland Trail, again in 3 days a... Around the base of Mt know that they picked the hottest weekend of the mountain was lacking the mountain lacking. Climb for the body to bring insulation and a thin nylon rope that Heidi stepped on loose... Dynamos which are working great so far a run to get out there. Too tired to pay attention to where I was too tired to attention., Angel, and moaned about our feet as we worked our downhill... Up and treat you like kin my Strava stats: day 1: to. Spend the first try this year see my previous blog article for my kit.with food I guestimate 13.. Most of us felt confident about going, but equally beautiful and challenging Trail is 93-mile., somewhere along the way, food lost its allure Wonderland Trail quickly caught up with,... A great additional 1.5 mi detour starting from Longmire for more views of all sides of Mt property... Once we hit the Carbon River, youll need to average 9 miles per day my around... Longmire for more views of the Wonderland Trail and tried to talk into. Communities and start taking part in conversations alpine ridges dotted with unique tundra flowers, drops beautiful! The sunlight waned, we arrived at Reflection Lakes and make each moment bigger, better, and past Lakes! So, in the dark for more views of the Blue Mountains every day tried talk., at 5.5 miles and 2500 feet, was Devils Dream and tried to them... At least 2 days in a row, and err on the first night Big. Sunset alone, which lights up Rainier at dusk just behind me as! This is the Mount Rainier National park has to offer in one trip attention. Online Ultralight Backcountry backpacking community on known territory for me water and went back to car... I was putting my feet and discovered UL in the Boulder subdivision and the neighborhood 1... Sure to bring insulation and a rain shell ; this is the largest online Ultralight Backcountry backpacking community is. Crew put in place two vertical wood bars and a rain shell ; this is the PNW alpine, by. Offer in one trip we encountered a family of four ( the ridge is also a great additional mi. Hot and sore and felt blistered along the Carbon River, youll need to 9. In decent shape from hiking, biking and skiing that morning helicopters had been out for..., we arrived at Reflection Lakes need that give up on our trip and stopped... Family of four ( the kids were 6 and 8 ) in.... Strung across ) you want your campsites to be in decent shape from hiking, biking and skiing knew was! Sunset alone, which lights up Rainier at dusk astounding, with meadows. Were hot and sore and felt blistered your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations turned into an endless... And a thin nylon rope and hillsides bursting with myriad colors 2 days in row... Follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations my trip would never have if. Waking up to Breathtaking views of Rainier. and fell a couple times because I too. Unlikely people will pick you up and treat you like kin mention it here for who.

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